dorian-araneda

dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p6xmz wrote

Reply to comment by LoveTriscuit in TIL the "Elf on the Shelf" a "Christmas Tradition," existed WELL BEFORE 2005, they were called "Knee Hugger Elves" by dorian-araneda

thanks. I've been told on more than one occasion can be tenacious.

Also, I'm a bit new to "the reddit"
I usually have to enter markdown mode because the regular editor always flakes out on me and gets corrupted. Don't know if it is my browser but research shows: The reddit text editor has a history of problems.

so I markdown and don't bother fighting with it.

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dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p4iyw wrote

Reply to comment by keengt in TIL the "Elf on the Shelf" a "Christmas Tradition," existed WELL BEFORE 2005, they were called "Knee Hugger Elves" by dorian-araneda

totally different topic, but I really don't like how we lie to children about Santa and these elves. And the surveillance concept is weird problem in itself.

We, as adults, create such a fabricated lie to fool our kids. Only to have them have to learn about it someway or another. Sometimes in traumatizing ways for kids who really buy into it.

My ex really pushed the Santa thing too far with my kids. My youngest son was a pretty bright kid but totally gobbling up the NORAD Santa shit. One day I asked him during this NORAD obsession (he was around 8 years old): "you don't really believe Santa is real do you? Flying around in a sled around the world". He started to cry. Fuck if that did not kill me inside. To be an accomplice to a lie that crushed my kid and for him to finally learn the truth from me. I look over to his brother who was over 11-12, and for fucks sake if he wasn't crying as well and I then realized that HE WAS STILL BELIEVING IN SANTA at his age.

I sure did make dad of the year . My Ex sure didn't like that. We got divorced not that long afterwards.

Around that same time my oldest was believing dragons were real because of some kids book his mother gave him that looked like an educational dinosaur book. It vividly described and illustrated the dragons their natural habitat and behaviors with colorful realistic art. I had to tell him the truth that the dragons in that book where not real even though it look like it. He cried. The irony was, my EX hated those discovery channel shows with computer generated dinosaurs and narration pretending to be scientific nature shows. She would criticize those shows because she had a zoology degree and knew the dangers of passing off pseudo science like that to those who may think it is real. children AND adults.

so yea. I hate lies with a passion.

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dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p243c wrote

Reply to TIL the "Elf on the Shelf" a "Christmas Tradition," existed WELL BEFORE 2005, they were called "Knee Hugger Elves" by dorian-araneda

I started researching the idea that "elf on the shelf" came about from a book from 2005.

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zv5nea/til_elf_on_the_shelf_a_christmas_tradition_didnt/

The following is my research and response to this article:

This was a real family tradition as my ex's family had this going on in the 70's.

They were Appalachian, upstate NY people. Germans/scandanavians ancestry.

There is history regarding this tradition. And I think this author is falsely trying to claim credit for copyright litigation intent.

EDIT: did some research on the name Aebersold (the author's surname)

https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=aebersold

"South German and Swiss German (Äbersold): variant spelling of Ebersold."

So, family tradition for the author with a German name. And my experience with my ex who, with a German surname and of German ancestry, and who grew up in a predominantly German/Dutch area of the Appalachians/Hudson Valley area, engaged in the SAME tradition that she passed on to our kids BEFORE the printing of this book.

I would NOT be surprised at all, if the authors who came up with Dwight and Mose Schrute also knew of this tradition existing in the dutch community.

EDIT: the more I research this, the more it reeks. I'm gonna say this: It is my opinion that they do not OWN "elf on the shelf" anymore than someone OWNS santa clause. I think this is the direction these people are going with this piece of cultural heritage.

adding this interesting article on "Cultural IP vs Commercial IP" from the American Bar Association.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/intellectual_property_law/publications/landslide/2019-20/march-april/cultural-ip-vs-commercial-ip/

It has interesting discussions such as the idea of trademarking the word "aloha",“Día de los Muertos,” and “kimono,”

There are a lot of other "elf on a shelf" products out there that are not controlled by this makers of this book.

It is interesting that this company, sitting on a media gold mine, started to seriously mine that gold and push out a lot of media back in 2011, around same time the wiki article was started. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4743438/bio

The history of edits and conversation in the wiki are also interesting.

I am now curious if this company that claims IP control of "elf on a shelf" are actively engaged in any legal actions to control said IP.

EDIT: “We are no longer a company whose focus is solely on a book about a magical Scout Elf, but one focused on an entire North Pole universe filled with a cast of characters with endless stories to be told.” https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200115005577/en/CCA-and-B-LLC-the-Creator-of-The-Elf-on-the-Shelf%C2%AE-Appoints-New-President-and-New-Chief-Administrative-Officer

EDIT: everything keeps ditto'ing this claim: Elf on the Shelf was created by the author. not the BOOK "elf on the shelf". https://ip.com/blog/popular-ideas-come-life-elf-shelf/

No different than going around saying you invented santa claus.

here for example are a bunch of vintage elf dolls sold on ebay. Many of them being the "knee hugger elf" https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=elf+doll+vintage&Brand=&_dcat=261636

look familar? https://www.walmart.com/ip/The-Elf-on-the-Shelf-Girl-Light/570799966?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&&adid=22222222227303278327&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=c&wl3=375552683026&wl4=pla-799894992625&wl5=9061285&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=570799966&veh=sem&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrb7KnsWW_AIVF4zICh3FmghNEAQYAiABEgJ5lPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

oh.....and here it is. the smoking gun. The elf in the shelf prior art.

I present to you the 1950's vintage "knee hugger ELF ON THE SHELF" for 50 something dollars...This is exactly the same doll my EX had and used around the house with my kids....I rest my case.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~h8AAOSwGKVjoatE/s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/255887926873?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D244526%26meid%3Da7a0e77367064e979dfa70dfc0ee50e8%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D234485082939%26itm%3D255887926873%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithRevOptLambda90KnnRecallV1DynamicRecsysV1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A255887926873a7a0e77367064e979dfa70dfc0ee50e8%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABMAGsZDIvLnJnqJBDy64SiWV0wf9ckbdNRF1Do0rBHjc7zKeoBPPIS%252B%252FGYu437k5kEdrpr7Ab3g86FTjqHh7Auag3Y%252FMwGORBY5AvZJYfCyMv8bOcOZwIWzWnLx3lmAVe7nxlvyrPvtavTi9KuRr%252FhM0VzI2LvgDfCQpJTWGpnPqJ%252FROvLHISKo%252BgGPB2jMIFovoRiP7slMPXAxf1F%252Bp7uixOlS5avapWa5Z0L5z6NR71L9Ztx3%252BTh06uhQ%252FoBKoJSksnUwfgphAElY6uzCSWXy7P1UJBUT6B6EwhQbgUarrEcejGquRxQe7aqMehHdhBceO73Ur76W3yKoJ%252FHe7XMQyON2j%252B2Qj9F5kvr%252FF2wP%252FE7XTqDybyRIrMto7ct8TbdbFkBFYe%252FGYZttCEhbTKsLo%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675

EDIT: interesting note, the "elf on the shelf" sold at Walmart dons a quite visible earring. I remember seeing this before many years ago, but only recently. I wonder if this is what makes this doll version different from the rest.

According to the IP article: https://ip.com/blog/popular-ideas-come-life-elf-shelf/ "Two federal trademark applications were filed in 2005. One was for the words “The Elf on the Shelf” and the other application was for this elf drawing, below. However, both of the applications were abandoned" "The applicant then filed for new applications for the Elf design and for “The Elf on the Shelf” (stylized) in 2008 and registered later that year."

here is an article on the litigious behavior of these people. they sued a parody called "elf off the shelf" and LOST. one person asks, if some one making a shelf elf pattern would loose in court. "anonymous" replied, "no, these elves have been around since the 60's. These people did not "invent" this elf.

https://tushnet.blogspot.com/2011/10/elf-defense-parody-defeats-tm-and.html

look a the date. 2011.....same time they started pushing the commercialization and marketing and that wiki entry.

I love digging up info like this. If it smells of bullshit, looks like bullshit, sounds like bullshit.......its BULLSHIT.

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