Yeah, somehow all the quick internet answers are normally “it dies very quickly outside the body” but research indicated otherwise

That’s fair. If money permits, having a safe place away from the city and the knowledge and tools to be self-sustaining is good. Many families simply don’t have the time or money to do that, though.

I feel like definitionally the singularity cannot be planned for since one of the core parts of the definition is that we can’t predict what will happen after the intelligence explosion

Man people need to meditate more! That’s a lot of hate my friend. Most people are good at their core. Some just end up in shitty situations.

I mean, if society collapses then their money won’t help, if society doesn’t collapse their money helps… what’s the downside?

Seems like it’s a good example for how a totally wrong conceptualization of a situation can still be very congruent with what you can observe easily

I have not seen strong evidence of a meaningful effect size when it comes to long term adverse outcomes in mild cases when limiting my search to robust, high quality studies, so given that this is a science sub, I’d love to see your citations. In my experience reading papers related to long Covid, the following applies:

• findings are often limited to a cohort of older or hospitalized patients

• when findings are generalized to mild cases, this is done by conducting a (voluntary) survey, almost always with abysmal response rates. It’s not viable to measure hazard ratios when 25% of your sample responded to your survey, since response bias has the potential to modulate those HRs by up to 4x.

• findings are nebulous or poorly defined, for example “any Covid symptom after 28 days” is often considered LC, which groups someone who has a lingering cough at 29 days in the same group as someone who has debilitating fatigue 3 months down the line. This lack of granularity limits the ability to draw conclusions about what “nasty things” are happening.

To date, I have yet to find a study which combines the following:

• uses health database data to avoid the bias inherent in voluntary responses

• performs subgroup analyses by age and pre-existing health, as well as clinical severity of the case

• adequately captures severity and duration of LC in the analysis.

Thus, the question “how much more likely is a healthy 30 year old to have lifestyle-limiting fatigue 6 months after mild Covid” remains unanswered.

The closest parallels I have found are studies which example very specific neuropsychiatric outcomes, such as this paper: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00260-7/fulltext

If you’re scientifically inclined it’s a fantastic read. It breaks down the neurological outcome trajectories for COVID patients compared to a matched control group with another URI by age and other factors.

If anything, what the study tells me is that we under-estimate the risks of regular old URIs that aren’t Covid.

Case in point, for the “adults” group, which excludes older adults and children, the total cumulative risk after 2 years was 29.2% after Covid, and 29.1% after another URI.

That difference is not statistically significant.

I have zero clue what you think youre arguing with. I’m saying that this screenshot is merely the product of a language model being trained on the internet, nothing more and nothing less

So I don’t get made into a paper clip

Kill myself

More like here’s what happens when a chatbot is trained on the internet. A lot of people would support this tbh. An omniscient AI that installs Bernie Sanders as President, destroys the NRA and kills anyone who refuses to obey COVID quarantine? This is like if the politics sub wrote a short story about the future utopia they envision.

I feel like search will become so much more powerful. No longer will we search for a webpage to find an answer, we’ll just ask the AI.

> chronic illness is caused by aging[…] You can solve chronic illness with a pristinely maintained body

Only if you ignore all the chronic illnesses that strike young people, like chronic pain conditions (migraine), autoimmune diseases, etc, which aren’t “caused by aging”

Hmmmm, but what about before withdrawal, during the addiction phase? Can that cause pain issues?

> This would mean that you could be aware of pain with out feeling bad because of it.

Also just wanted to mention — this is the theory of mindfulness and meditation which is perhaps why it has seen some success. You can genuinely be aware of pain but experience it without suffering.

The proof is in the pudding right? We’ve all seen that photo of the Buddhist monk sitting still while burning himself to death.

Yeah I mean I’ve followed a lot of the research and what you’re saying makes some sense but also is obviously a bit of a simplification right — theories about migraines talk about signals misprocessed as pain, or over-sensitization, but also mitochondrial dysfunction or even things as simple as TMJ causing tension which triggers a migraine after a tension headache… it seems like it’s a complicated picture since some people respond to certain therapies but not others…

I also wonder how much you’ve researched about dopamine imbalances. One thing I’ve wondered is how much pain or anxiety could have to do with compulsive, addictive behavior that is often used to get a rush when one is feeling down. I’ve read theories that things like anxiety or migraines are sometimes linked to dopamine issues. Maybe if someone is frying those receptors by constantly stimulating them, whether it’s hardcore porn or just their favorite video game for 8 hours a day, could they be impacting how their brain processes other info?

And in that case, maybe for some people it’s as simple as “stop doing those things and let your brain readjust to a lower level of dopamine”. And in this case, I’d think difficulty actually stopping could be indicative of finding a source of a problem right? If someone is experiencing chronic pain for example, and tries to stop doing certain behaviors because they think it may be a causative factor, but despite their brutal pain they’re unable to stop (I know someone like this) it makes me think — okay that’s truly addictive behavior. If you are literally disabled by your pain and the prospect of being pain free isn’t enough to prevent you from seeking that high, you’re hardcore addicted.

There’s a shocking dearth of research on addictive behaviors, their correlations with chronic pain conditions, and the association between cessation of the behaviors with reduction in pain levels. I can’t find a single study that, for example, took a group of pain sufferers, compared their internet surfing behaviors with a control group of pain free people, then attempted an intervention of stopping the surfing, and measuring the effects of that.

Just food for thought. I’d personally like to think pain levels are something we can modulate with behavior, and someone with pain isn’t simply doomed to always be overly sensitive. I’d like to think we can make lifestyle choices, even things as simple as getting good sleep, that will lower that threshold

I’ve seen relief from migraines with supplements like B2 that are known to impact mitochondrial function but you’re the expert I dunno what else might be going on.

But absolutely yes I’ve also seen that mindset change from things like meditation or therapy can seemingly sometimes literally reduce pain.

It’s no surprise I guess that migraine and anxiety are so often linked, although of course you have to ask if it’s due to some underlying common etiology (word?) or whether it’s simply that chronic pain induces a state of fear… probably a little of both.

Addiction, even if not literal physical dependence I think is common in migraine too… video games addiction or porn or whatever it is, seems very common…

You have no idea how much joy you could spread to the world in figuring these things out, probably over a billion people are suffering from chronic pain and just want it to end, Godspeed to you I wish you the best, many of us need help

That is super interesting. I have a chronic pain condition and I’ve always wished we understood it better so it could just be cured

Yeah I don’t see how NK cells would recognize Covid virons directly, I did mean recognizing the infection by way of recognizing infected cells that are stressed.

I will paste the study I found prior when I am able to find it again, when I’m off mobile. I did find this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4909049/

Which talks about the studies examining the effects of exercise on NK cells, some studies report conflicting results but it seems this is often due to exercise dose.

I also wonder about things that are fairly common and usually benign like SIgAD, or far more commonly partial IgA deficiency (PIgAD). I found one study that found a 4x odds ratio for severe Covid in SIgAD patients, but the CIs are massive, this doesn’t apply to PIgAD (generally defined as IgA levels below 2SD of the median but not below detection limits, for example if reference range bottoms out at 90mg/dL and you find 30, that’s not <5 but it’s low), and also you have the bias inherent in the fact that many SIgAD people are asymptomatic so a cohort of diagnosed SIgAD people is going to probably include mostly symptomatic cases since they’re more likely to be detected.

But PIgAD is far more common, obviously simple math dictates a low single digit or slightly below 1% rate. If this is associated wifi more severe Covid outcomes I’d wonder what can be done for those patients since IgA deficiencies can’t really be “treated” effectively and even a mucosal / nasal vaccine would not help much if their B cells are being arrested before maturing to the point of creating IgA antibodies

Thanks for the explanation w.r.t. CD56.. I wonder what the most crucial element in the naive host is? Innate immunity wise. IgA? Can that be created quickly even if you’re immune naive? Thinking about back in 2020 how some immune naive hosts still had mild course. Or is it just that their innate immune system reacted quickly? Given the high concentration and extensive proliferation of neutrophils, they’d probably be the first to come across the infection and sound alarm bells no?

Does this apply to both CD56dim and CD56bright NK cells? My understanding is that CD56dim NK cells generally need antibodies to mark cells for them whereas CD56bright NK cells will kill cells without them being marked.

Do they recognize COVID? I’ve been wondering if the better outcomes for COVID cases in active people, even after adjusting for co-morbidities (meaning that the effect sizes aren’t simply due to physical activity preventing obesity or diabetes) could be due to the fact that studies have shown moderate exercise increases NK cell proliferation as well as I believe macrophages and other cells. One study called it “enhanced immunosurveillence”. So maybe exercise increases the proliferation of NK cells which helps as a front line defense against COVID? NK cells are abundant in mucosa right?

As far as I understand, NK (natural killer) cells are generally considered a direct evolutionary result of viruses or pathogens learning to evade immune cells that require MHC signaling. NK cells can lyse cells simply by recognizing “missing self”.

We believe that when pathogens learned to evade adaptive cellular immunity (memory CD4 and CD8 T cells) that NK cells became an advantageous trait