Shuber-Fuber

Shuber-Fuber t1_jeb3228 wrote

Except both are correct term though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dower

And without the quote it gets even more ambiguous

Bride price is up

vs

"Bride price" is up.

And dower has a different meaning for Western world, which is functionally an optional contract that's essentially a divorce settlement.

6

Shuber-Fuber t1_jeayic1 wrote

I mean if you put "dower" there it gets even more ambiguous and arguably "nefarious", because it appears you're hiding what you're doing behind an arbitrary term.

Most people don't know what dower is. "Bride price" is an accurate enough description, it's a payment for a bride, and you can at least get that concept across first before talking about the historical background.

Also it turns out that's the right term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dower

"Dower" is specifically a Muslim tradition if it involves groom paying bride.

3

Shuber-Fuber t1_jad8viv wrote

>Wars don’t end by one party saying they are wrong and turning back. The only way for it to end is through negotiated settlement.

Negotiation is ongoing. That's what wars are, negotiation. It's up to Ukraine and Russia to decide when the cost is too high, and there's absolutely nothing wrong for Ukrainian allies to make sure that cost is tilted as heavily against Russia as possible.

Russia already committed genocide against Ukraine once (Holodomor). Russia (at least Putin) already announced the intention to erase Ukrainian identity (also a genocide). So let me ask you this, how high a price would you pay to not get killed or enslaved? Or would you want someone on your side to make sure the cost to enslave you is high enough for those wishing to enslave you that they go home?

That's ultimately what this war is about, Ukrainian wishing not to be enslaved, and their allies supporting that wish. And every negotiated settlement will have to include Russia no longer have a chance to enslave Ukrainians.

2

Shuber-Fuber t1_j2714ak wrote

Not really.

Nazi V-2 bombardment of England didn't lead to capitulation.

Neither did the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo.

Neither did the two nuclear bombs dropped lead to civilians giving up (post war survey showed that the civilian population wanted to keep defending), it was the military after that and the threat of Soviet Union invading.

Targeting civilian targets rarely worked, because they know instinctually that if the enemy does that in war they will do worse afterward.

The best way to win war? Don't target civilians. Target military only, and force said military to be the "bad guy" trying to extract resources from civilian sectors. Vietnam War inadvertently showed that against the US. From the US perspective, Vietcong only targeted soldiers (even if for no other reason than that they have no means to target the US), and US civilians forced the military to give up despite the US military winning the war on the ground.

1

Shuber-Fuber t1_j1v6t9z wrote

Another crazy part is that a vast majority of that "crazy amount of money" doesn't cost the US in the traditional sense.

Think of donating old clothes to Goodwill, that's essentially what a lot of US donations are, stuff we don't actually need and would've pay to dismantle/dispose of in some way anyway a few years down the line.

And a lot of newer stuff is in manufacturing sector that the US would've paid for anyway for other purposes to keep them operating. We paid for Abrams tanks that the Army specifically said they don't need more of just to keep the production lines running. So a lot of stuff we gave to Ukraine could be chalk up to "stuff we would've paid for anyway for other reasons". Russia's invasion just gives the US a better reason than "we need to keep MIC operating".

24