That is true but given the OPs context the headband issue would still be at play. To be clear, the Clear is a phenomenal headphone and I am currently looking for a Utopia to add to my collection but that is the only part that gives me pause. Although I did just see a post of someone retrofitting the headband with the Sundara headband and it looks legit. If I was buying a replacement I would grab the Arya headband but that is what they had on hand and it worked

Meh, I thought about that but I am not about to recommend a Focal in a conversation about durability. Though for sound purposes I agree.

Yeah if it was from a standing position to the ground I'm sure it would not be great but I think off a head to a desk is probably ok. I have heard they are so massive they actually form a crater as opposed to getting dinged. That is where I definitely think Beyer takes the cake. They are made for all day studio abuse.

If it is going to be a fair battle it would need to be the DT-1990 but even still I think the XS are better sonically. I think the LCD-X may be your best bet instead of the 2 due to it's wood cups. If you mean the LCD-2C then that would be another good one but if you can save a little more I think the X is the way to go. Just so you know, while I prefer it, the sound of Audeze is much wamer/darker than Hifiman. So they have more slam to the bass but no where near the sound stage.

While I think the MM-100 will probably compare sonically (speculation and Audeze lover), it looks like the headband is from the Mobius so it won't be the same metal yokes and headband but instead a plastic one. If you want something built like a tank, you will need to go up to the Audeze LCD-2C or if durability is your number 1 priority I would check our Beyerdynamic. Every part is user replaceable and while the Audeze are sturdy I wouldn't want to drop them whereas the Beyers are pretty capable of being handled pretty poorly and being just fine. That's kind of the thing with Hifiman though, sounds punches way above the price but the build quality leaves a lot to be desired. So to get a true sonic comparison you typically have to go a bit up in price.

The only way I know is to use a hair dryer in very slow increments as to not melt the plastic. You could get a hard audio cable for a pretty good price and just replace it

This guy gets it.

I love the Apple hate on a headphone sub. Gotta get your hate out somewhere I guess.

Nah, you would need to step up to the Arya with the suspension headband. It is legit the most comfortable headphone out there not just Hifiman assuming the egg shape doesn’t push on your jaw weird (only complaint I have heard). Plus you get better bass extension with better detail.

Still not going to sound like speakers tho.

My only comparison in this regard would be the Audeze LCD-i4 to the LCD-5. Both the TOTL that Audeze offers. To me, the LCD-5 absolutely demolishes the i4 but it is also almost twice the price. I would say that comparing the i4 to other sub $2K headphones and it is much more of a competition but I still think even an Arya Stealth still wins out. It is worth noting that the i4 is certainly a special case when it comes to IEMs though as it is open back and actually gives real soundstage and completely bests every other IEM I have heard. So while I haven't heard the Monarch MK2, I get the feeling that the gap is even wider.

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I feel like IEMs really shine in the sub $300 category.

I started with a DT-990 Pro and then I went all in and tried most of the highly recommended things in Midfi: Edition XS, Ananda, Elex, Aeon Open X, HE6SE and ended up loving the difference so much that I had to know what the Arya was like. Jeez what a difference. Everything in that category was already a big step up and so I wanted to know but wondered what more there could be. For me personally, this was when I felt like I finally transcended. Everything in that midfi category sounded incredible but the Arya was the first time I fully disappeared into the music. I was in a new world. I don’t know if that is the same for everyone but it wasn’t until I broke that threshold that everything came alive.

From there I tried some IEMs and eventually got the Audeze iSine10. They destroyed every IEM I had heard and so I had to hear the Audeze sound and picked up a pair of LCD-3. It was intoxicating. Smooth and liquidy but also really detailed. Not as detailed as the Arya but I loved the warm/dark signature. I then traded my Arya for an LCD-24 and it was like another level again. More detail than the Arya but the warmth and impact I had to come to love from Audeze. I am now on an LCD-5 and woof. The detail is unparalleled and they just sound so natural. It was like transcending again. They are just insane.

It’s funny because I believe in diminishing returns but at the same time I personally have felt that at certain levels there are points where things just go to a different level. Are they 20x better as the price would indicate? Well no, but it is not the same experience at all so I don’t know where I sit lol.

Just misinformed. I mean I’m pretty sure those plus soundstage are the 6X0 series 3 major downfalls. Smooth, close, 3 blob.

For some context to OP I disagree with this comment.

I do agree that your current setup is audiophile, as for me audiophile is just getting the best audio quality for your budget.

I guess where I am confused is everything past there. If you already have a decent speaker setup that is your preferred listening method, why deep dive in the headphone hobby? For me personally, speakers are just not a viable option at this point between too close of neighbors and respecting the rest of my house (making some noise would be fine but I can’t turn it up too much). I also think that diminishing returns is a thing and that even compared to what they have things aren’t going to be 2x, 5x or even compared to an LCD-5 90x better. However, as you noted things do get better and for me, while they may be smaller differences, those differences are what allow me to teleport and completely lose myself versus just listening to music with good tonal balance.

It really just sounds like you are a speaker person and it is clouding what your comments are supposed to mean. Do you just feel that a speaker setup is just that much better?

Came here to say this but I would leave noise canceling off the list because that is completely subjective and in its current state goes the opposite direction. Sure if I’m on a plane it would make things better but in my quite listening room forget about it. That is probably what you meant but I just wanted to clarify.

So let’s see here, you absolutely cannot EQ those technicalities with our current extremely smooth graphs because you cannot even tell me where they are. So that is an outright lie.

Yes, if your hearing is not capable of discerning details then I would certainly buy the one that costs way less. Also, if they are already close enough then why would one be better than the other given a certain song?

Yes I would agree that they would be the same if we could perfectly measure a headphone (we cannot) and we could perfectly EQ a headphone (we cannot) so why even make the statement? If they both had the same FR, they would be the same headphone. The point is that even if you EQd the to try to match the smooth target you are missing the fine grained details that make all of the difference.

The quarks are a great budget IEM with excellent tonal balance. Nothing more.

It sounds like tonal balance is all that matters to you which makes sense why the quarks are all you need. Makes you look like a fool for owning those HD800 though. Why even own it?

You can’t EQ detail, slam, soundstage, etc. and any smoothed graph you are looking at won’t tell you that. So if it sounds good to you, that is awesome but even with DSP they are lacking quite a bit. I would be curious of your thoughts on the Dusk if you EQd them to the same target.

My question would be, are the measurement devices we currently use able to properly display those differences? Mind you, these are the same smoothed FR graphs that don’t show (or we can’t interpret) slam, detail retrieval, sound stage, etc. from. to be clear, I am not even saying there is a difference, but I am saying that it wouldn’t be inconceivable that the change is more fine grained than our current graphs are able to show. They are clearly limited in this regard. My advice is and always will be listen for yourself and do you best to do the cleanest a/b comparison you can. That way, even if it is placebo, who cares because it is better for your experience.

I think maybe you should listen to the “tired old things” because they are true. They are only settled for Amir’s sheep. Amir is the worst and most dangerous influencer in this hobby because he is a fraud. Zeos, Josh, etc may not be trustworthy but they never claimed to be objectivists. Amir claims objectivity and science and then runs bull shit tests with his own intuition and then castigates anyone that disagrees with him along with his minions (you) because, ya know, science or something. So Zeos and Josh get a pass because they are not claiming to be anything so no harm no foul, but Amir does not get a pass and why I refer to him as a fraud. You bring up not liking him and you are correct, but that has nothing to do with him personally but instead his laziness and unscientific process that he then tries to make people feel bad about by using big words that he then comes to also be found incorrect on.

You are also incorrect that I trust his hardware measurements. I do trust the measurements resolve did, because he follows industry standard practices, and am not trying to claim the Diana does not have high distortion numbers. I also have no ties with HeadFi other than I use their classifieds.

I do find it sad that you think a graph can tell you all you need to know about headphones when our current measurement/interpretation ability is not able to tell use a fair bit about a headphone I.e. slam, detail, soundstage, etc. just use your own ears and you will see how wrong Amir is.

Your last point is just flat out wrong. I EQd more than just bass and never had a single issue with distortion. I’m inclined to believe you have never heard a Diana because you just keep taking about distortion. Again, it wasn’t the headphone for my taste, but if you are bringing up distortion as if it is audible in anyway you are a liar or probably bought shitty source equipment based on Amir’s recommendation.

Happy Listening! (Does not include sine sweeps)

I think this about sums it up.

They are a match made in heaven.

Well there are two things that go into that:

1. As it retains to my comment. It wasn't about the headphone it was about his methodology and laziness. He is well aware that industry standard practice is multiple seatings and using an average and for good reason. But no no no, not for good ole "Mr. Measurements", he trusts his ears, they are afterall, so well trained that they are registered pieces of scientific equipment. Let me repeat that, "Mr. Objectivity" doesn't use the industry standard practice but instead uses his ears because he is too lazy to do multiple seatings. Should we get into the levels he listens at and how much hearing loss he must have suffered at this point? No? Are his ears not susceptible like us mere mortals?
2. Whether having that high of a level of distortion is another thing. I am not here to defend Abyss and it does seem strikingly high. But it always comes back to one important thing, is it audible? Well as someone that has owned the Diana V2, and moved on from it because it wasn't their taste, it is 100% inaudible. I even played around with EQ a lot on that headphone even adding >+6db bass shelfs and still, absolutely nothing. So the question is, why if it is not audible, does he hammer the point home and compare <$50 headphones to them saying they are the worse than those even if they were the same price? Why did he double down on everything and try to use big words to make himself not look like a hack? I don't know. What I do know is that Amir is a fraud and has been proven so many times. None of this would matter if he didn't claim to be an objectivist and all about the measurements when his own laziness doesn't even allow for him to do the bare minimum. But as it stands he keeps preaching and thus, he deserves to be exposed.

At the end of the day, I traded mine for an LCD-5 and would never go back. Although they did have a naturalness to their midrange that I had never heard before and still never since. I don't even know how to describe it other than it just felt like the singer was truly in the room with me I was in the room with the singer when I closed my eyes. It was the first time music videos annoyed me because I could tell the room the instruments were recorded in was not the same room the video was shot in because the reverberation of the room was all wrong. I have never experienced anything else that had that quality.

Amir got made to look a fool over that controversy and was rinsed clean by the audio community. He was proved to be a pseudoscientist that only cares about consistency when it’s easy for him. Don’t misremember what happened in the end.

Too similar to the 6XX for you like like them most likely. Edition XS would be the move based on what you described. Don’t be afraid to purchase second hand just make sure the person has some established trade credibility. Big time savings given most people in this hobby take very good care of their headphones and more than likely they have never left their desk.

It depends what a person means when they say headroom. There is a big difference between having enough power for your average db vs having enough power for transients. There is no need to have “headroom” more than you need for transients but in the OPs case it clearly does not do that.

If OP listens at 80 db average at 90-97% volume then the peaks in the music will be cut off. Depending on the type of music you listen to you could have anywhere for say 15-30 db transients. The rub is that the power needed is not linear with the increase in db but instead exponentially. So where you may only need 50mW of power at 80db you will need 150mW at 85 db (I made up those numbers but a headphone power calculator can tell you exactly what they are depending on your headphone).

My suggestion would be to use a headphone power calculator and input your resistance (ohms) and sensitivity (db/mW) and then see how much power it needs at 115db. I typically listen at around 80-85 so this covers me for an additional 30-35 db of “headroom” for transients. That way even if you typically only listen at 70 you know you are covered if you want to really go crazy for a bit (but be sure to limit your time doing this if you do).

It is also worth noting that if you plan to EQ (and you should if you can because why not) that you will need to take into account your negative preamp into the equation. So it you listen at 80 but have a negative preamp of -5db you will need to include that in your power calculation by adding another 5db to your listening level.

So if people mean they want headroom so that they can listen at 95db with full transients for 1 song well then maybe? But otherwise there is no headroom needed past what your headphone requires to fully show transients. Just another warning that while listening at this kind of level for a short time is “ok” but definitely don’t do it for long periods of time and you can always see what OSHA says as far as exposure at certain levels that is a good reference.

The other issue I see is tonality. It is pretty easy to tell my LCD-5 and 6XX apart just based off of their tuning. You could try EQing both to some target to try to minimize which would be interesting with the other blind folded stuff. Just would have to make sure all headphones could take the EQ because a 6XX just can’t handle sub bass as well so definitely a roll off like the 6XX has naturally.

I don’t know for sure but maybe someone with an 800S can comment. My guess would be that you could add a little bit but you may run in to the excursion limit of those dynamic drivers. They will definitely not have the slam of the Focals or Audeze but it will be better.

It is also worth noting that buying used is a great option. Typically speaking, a headphone loses a big chunk of initial value once it is purchased but after that the price stays pretty flat. So assuming you are patient and pay reasonable prices for the headphones you can easily use them for a few months and then sell them and buy another headphone in that range until you find what you like.